Understanding the VDP's scrolling capabilities.

For anything related to VDP (plane, color, sprite, tiles)

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sheath
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Post by sheath » Sun May 23, 2010 6:50 pm

I probably should have done this by now, but I have been updating the original post on the first page of this thread with all of the games that I have analyzed. I am very happy to accept the input of anybody and everybody on these games or any other game that supplies similar effects. I'd also really appreciate others who take interest providing Layer A/B stats as I have listed below, or even improving my format if it is confusing to anybody.

I am prioritizing games that display more than 4 scrolling layers and then finding the relevant facts about how many layers apply to background A or B. Games with polygonal objects, unique line scrolling effects, like Ranger X's tube scenes and windows, or Batman & Robin's building and ground scrolling, are recorded also but separately.

Here is the list as it stands right now:
Sonic 2, Aquatic Ruin, 10 scrolls plus palette swap line for water.
Layer A is the player ground and palette swap line.
Layer B is the foreground foliage (can see layer A through leaves)
Layer B is also split into 9 scrolls behind Layer A
Over half of the layers scroll at independent speeds smoothly
Some of the scrolls in the foliage behind layer A scroll every other frame.

Ranger X, First Level, 7 scrolls
Layer A is the player ground
Layer A is is the mid range background including:
1 Hillside scroll behind brick wall
2 Ruins Wall at base of mountain range (every 2-3 frames)
3 Mountain Range with city being bombed (every 2-3 frames)
Layer B is large bricks in front of player ground
Layer B is brick wall behind player ground
Layer B is far background with mountain range and sunset

Lightening Force L1 4-6 scrolls on screen including line scroll water as 1
Layer A is multiple cloud scrolls in front and behind Layer B clouds
Layer A is Rocks in foreground at bottom of playfield
Layer A is clouds scroll in front of Layer B mountain range at center
Layer A is clouds scroll behind Layer B mountain range at center
Layer B is multiple cloud scrolls overlapped with Layer A clouds at top
Layer B is mountain range at center
Layer B is line scroll water at bottom behind Layer A rocks

Shinobi III L1 5 Scrolls sprites connect trunks in 4th with tree tops
Layer A is player ground which doubles for foreground tree cover at top
Layer B is 4 scrolls:
Grass behind player ground
Grass with dirt patches behind scroll 1
Grass with tree trunks behind scroll 2 and tree cover at top of screen
Far background forest

Redzone
Redzone mixes sprites with Layer A & B to complete the rotating ground effect, the FMV in the intro, and the "high color" title screen. It seems like no image is complete without all layers on.

Batman & Robin L1 just two layers with line scrolling in both
Layer B is linescrolled building and player ground
Layer A is line scrolled smoke/fog and overlayed "shadow/Hilight"
Shadow/Hilight effect darkens entire layer B

MUSHA Intro 6-7 scrolls on screen at once
Layer A is characters and objects
Layer B is 5 mountain range scrolls
Layer B is far background (doubles as reflection on glasses)

For Ristar L1 I count 10 eight line scrolls plus one line scroll
Layer A is player ground
Layer B is the following scrolls:
Green leaves behind player ground
Purple foliage behind green leaves scroll
Pastel treeline with linescrolling water
Pink mountain range
Far background mountain range
Clouds bottom layer top
Cloud middle layer top
Clouds top layer top

Bimini Run - one background is eight line scrolls to the horizon
Waves animate to appear like scaling
Only one layer represents the waves
The waves change palettes to indicate water depth near islands
Animated sprite transitions are as smooth as they come

Rings of Power: 9 cloud layers forced scrolled, 1 far forest, play ground
No testing on A/B layers yet.


To be analyzed:
Contra HardCorps
Castlevania Bloodlines
Formula 1 (Domark)
Kawasaki Superbike
Mickey Mania
Newman Haas IndyCar
Road Rash
Sonic 3D Blast
Street Racer (E)
Toy Story

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Sun May 23, 2010 7:21 pm

Ranger X's tube and Batman & Robin house is the same effect, also the same as floor in many fighting games - it is the line scroll, instead of tile row scroll. I.e., every line of the background layer has it's own X offset.

iNCEPTIONAL
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Re:

Post by iNCEPTIONAL » Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:01 am

sheath wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:32 am
Whereas scenes such as those created by the games I listed above were never done in SNES software.

8-10 independently scrolling background layers, with some showing individual line scrolling at the same time, was only done in Genesis software.
So, just to check, do you mean like this, or am I misinterpreting what you mean:

https://youtu.be/_CO66ioB-ZE?t=991

https://youtu.be/_CO66ioB-ZE?t=500

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=106

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=449

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=1720

https://youtu.be/F59TiwrECLo?t=334

https://youtu.be/F59TiwrECLo?t=387

https://youtu.be/59m9sEWjSSI?t=9

https://youtu.be/Rv6XkVXE13w?t=2598

https://youtu.be/IyrOCNQc_rs?t=29

https://youtu.be/oCiSEChgjC4

Just trying to figure out if we're thinking of the same thing and where you see this difference between the way each system works when it comes to those 8-10 independently scrolling background layers?

turboxray
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Re: Understanding the VDP's scrolling capabilities.

Post by turboxray » Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:49 am

Why are you necroposting a 12 year old thread?!

And those last two videos are gamemaker mock ups - not snes code or demo or rom. Also, why are you even here inceptional?

iNCEPTIONAL
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Re: Re:

Post by iNCEPTIONAL » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:38 pm

iNCEPTIONAL wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:01 am
sheath wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:32 am
Whereas scenes such as those created by the games I listed above were never done in SNES software.

8-10 independently scrolling background layers, with some showing individual line scrolling at the same time, was only done in Genesis software.
So, just to check, do you mean like this, or am I misinterpreting what you mean:

https://youtu.be/_CO66ioB-ZE?t=991

https://youtu.be/_CO66ioB-ZE?t=500

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=106

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=449

https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=1720

https://youtu.be/F59TiwrECLo?t=334

https://youtu.be/F59TiwrECLo?t=387

https://youtu.be/59m9sEWjSSI?t=9

https://youtu.be/Rv6XkVXE13w?t=2598

https://youtu.be/IyrOCNQc_rs?t=29

https://youtu.be/oCiSEChgjC4

Just trying to figure out if we're thinking of the same thing and where you see this difference between the way each system works when it comes to those 8-10 independently scrolling background layers?
So, I presume these were indeed the same kind of thing the original poster was talking about.

Also, I'm curious, do mode 7 effects like this count as multiple layers of parallax too, or maybe line/row scrolling, or is it considered more of a pseudo textured 3D effect, even though it definitely creates the illusion of both parallax and scrolling:

https://youtu.be/MsS6Wvuzj8k

https://youtu.be/PcL8jcLslP8

Also, side note, I recently discovered this about the Genesis VDP in relation to both the SNES and PC Engine, which I found very interesting too:

https://youtu.be/r7Jh_izIc8Q

It's a nice partner video to the normal comparison of CPU speeds that we usually see:

https://youtu.be/2k_jP73Ly7A

I'd actually like to see more videos like this in the future but with all the parts in one so it gives a more complete and balanced view of all three consoles in the one place. And it just shows that there's a lot more to these systems than a few on-paper numbers and select game examples can cover.

But, on that note, I do think this game does some some visually really nice parallax using the two background layers, a minimal amount of line/row scrolling, and it is pushing a lot of sprites around for a nice sense of busy action too:

https://youtu.be/RCYVlmbe2qY?t=267

I actually think it's a really impressive looking game on the system, despite having never seen anyone really mention it.

And here's a wee bit of faux 3D on the Genesis too:

https://youtu.be/7m0DKzJiloE?t=1044

So Genesis definitely has its strengths.

And, here's the PC Engine doing some really nice parallax scrolling too, especially considering that console only has a single background layer to play with and also has to use some of its sprites to do any properly overlapping parallax layers:

https://youtu.be/3qdIxCQRo54

https://youtu.be/8Cv92j7R9K8

https://youtu.be/RSgEUh-u4-c

Chilly Willy
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Re: Understanding the VDP's scrolling capabilities.

Post by Chilly Willy » Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:04 pm

This should probably be in its own thread with a title like "Capabilities of various VDPs at parallax effects" rather than necroing such an old thread. I like the videos showing examples of different effects, but more in-depth explanations would be more interesting. This is a site aimed at devs, so when we get a video, we ask "where's the code?" :lol:

iNCEPTIONAL
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Re: Understanding the VDP's scrolling capabilities.

Post by iNCEPTIONAL » Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:05 pm

Chilly Willy wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:04 pm
This should probably be in its own thread with a title like "Capabilities of various VDPs at parallax effects" rather than necroing such an old thread. I like the videos showing examples of different effects, but more in-depth explanations would be more interesting. This is a site aimed at devs, so when we get a video, we ask "where's the code?" :lol:
There ya go, I made a new thread as you suggested: http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/vie ... =22&t=3339

Chilly Willy
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Re: Understanding the VDP's scrolling capabilities.

Post by Chilly Willy » Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:29 pm

Cool. Thanks. We can let this thread go back to sleep. :D

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