Genesis - SNES audio comparison

For anything related to sound (YM2612, PSG, Z80, PCM...)

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Snake
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Post by Snake » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:18 am

Chilly Willy wrote:I think it's more a matter of what you're used to. Today, we're used to 48 or 96 kHz sample rates. Back then, 8kHz was something to rant about. :lol:
This is very true, actually. Same goes for Video. PlayStation suddenly looked very nasty to me after the Dreamcast.

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:09 am

Snake wrote:
Chilly Willy wrote:I think it's more a matter of what you're used to. Today, we're used to 48 or 96 kHz sample rates. Back then, 8kHz was something to rant about. :lol:
This is very true, actually. Same goes for Video. PlayStation suddenly looked very nasty to me after the Dreamcast.
How do you think I feel when I get off my PS3 and go work on Genesis stuff? :lol:

Huge
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Post by Huge » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:02 am

Snake wrote:
Chilly Willy wrote:I think it's more a matter of what you're used to. Today, we're used to 48 or 96 kHz sample rates. Back then, 8kHz was something to rant about. :lol:
This is very true, actually. Same goes for Video. PlayStation suddenly looked very nasty to me after the Dreamcast.
It took you the Dreamcast to realize that the Playstation looked nasty?

tomaitheous
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Post by tomaitheous » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:54 pm

I took it as him meaning full motion video.

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Post by Robby99999 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:39 am

Snake wrote: SNES sound will always sound muddy through 'a sound system with some big speakers', because its below 40KHz. The Genesis sounds far cleaner, even if its only playing an 8KHz sample, because the hardware is still writing to the DAC higher than 40KHz.
A big issue with the sound coming from the SNES console is the interpolation used (possibly the low-pass filter as well).

I've noticed (like you) that the music from my SNES console sounds a bit muddy when played through my stereo system, which is a Sony 100w x 2 Hybrid Dual Woofer. Recordings I've made from the console before sounded a bit too quite and muffled. Back when I was in middle school, though, and played it a lot, I didn't notice this mainly because I wasn't as much of an audiophile back then.

Now, the voices:
Of the SNES, Genesis, and TurboGrafx 16 versions of Street Fighter 2, for example, the TurboGrafx 16, IMO, happened to have the clearest voices of them all. The voices on the SNES version were way filtered out.

My Model 1 Genesis (w/ the HDG logo), on the other hand, sounded great though my stereo system. It was loud as well.
Given that the YM2612 is entirely digital - each operator (there are 24 of them) is playing a sample from an internal ROM. (Incidentally, you have complete control over all of them, so you could use the thing as a 24 channel chip if you so desired.) Ok, so given that this ROM is at a fixed address and size, that simplifies things somewhat. However, the bottom line is that the chip is a lot more complicated than a simple sample playing device, is doing all of the same things, and a lot more. But it doesn't play user-supplied samples from RAM, because that's not what it was designed for. I'm not really seeing how that makes this chip 'inferior'. Quite the opposite.
I agree.

It makes it very unique in its own way and gives it a distinctive sound. In all of my years of listening to game music, Genesis music has been one of my most listened to types of game music.

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Post by powerofrecall » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:48 pm

Digging up this thread but I have to put my two bits in--

I can't stand most SPC music out of the SNES, both real console and emulated. It's basically like a poor MOD format with teeny tiny looping samples. Some games sounded great but 90% of them sounded cheap. (To the SNES fanboys though, I guess it's a sound you get used to/nostalgic for.)

MD on the other hand was awesome at doing stuff that wasn't going for "realism." All the best MD VGM was stuff that sounded intentionally synthetic like Streets of Rage, or when it's really pushed into crazy territory like Batman and Robin. Well programmed FM has way more "oomph" than SPC/wavetable music does.

As for the output of the console I'd like to see an MD emulator emulate the non-linearity and generally low quality of the output stage. I think that is one of the big things missing from Sega sound emulation--YM2612 emulation is very close to perfect now but it's missing the harmonic distortion that comes out of the real console specifically on the low end. Kega's got that lowpass filter now that helps a lot but I think it could be taken further with a bit of DSP or maybe even speaker modelling to simulate the sound as it would come out of a TV or any other simulated device. Emulated YM2612 sounds way too "bright" and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but that kind of filtering would be an awesome option to have. Kind of like video output plugins but for sound.

(btw anyone that would wanna tackle a project like that I would be HAPPY to help with recordings from different MDs/Genesis, I have a home studio setup that could get some really good quality samples of it, and I'm no stranger to DSP)

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Post by TmEE co.(TM) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:40 am

...and I modded my MD2 so it would not have any of the distortions and filtering happening, so it would give out clean nice output as a regular emulator would :P
(MD2 ASIC)YM2612 sounds a bit brighter than emulators (at least ones I've tested)
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Post by tomaitheous » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:21 am

powerofrecall wrote:or when it's really pushed into crazy territory like Batman and Robin.
Batman and Robin!? Batman and Robin!? Of all the games of great music from the Genesis, you mention that game? That game's music sucks bad <_<

And if you dare mention Red Zone, I'm gonna have to take you out back and shoot you to put you out of your misery :lol:

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Post by HardWareMan » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:20 am

tomaitheous wrote:
powerofrecall wrote:or when it's really pushed into crazy territory like Batman and Robin.
Batman and Robin!? Batman and Robin!? Of all the games of great music from the Genesis, you mention that game? That game's music sucks bad <_<

And if you dare mention Red Zone, I'm gonna have to take you out back and shoot you to put you out of your misery :lol:
If we talking about creativity of "A Scavenger Team", then you forgot about Sub Terrania. Take PD ROM here.

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Post by Stef » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:03 am

tomaitheous wrote:
powerofrecall wrote:or when it's really pushed into crazy territory like Batman and Robin.
Batman and Robin!? Batman and Robin!? Of all the games of great music from the Genesis, you mention that game? That game's music sucks bad <_<

And if you dare mention Red Zone, I'm gonna have to take you out back and shoot you to put you out of your misery :lol:
I do agree with him, Batman and Robin tunes are just awesome !
Ones of my favorites on MD, definitly. I've the complete score on my MP3 player :p
The music are 100% YM2612, even beats are done by FM and they sounds really great.
Afaik i do agree that others Jesper Kyd MD tunes as Red Zones or Sub Terrania ones are more "classicals", but they sounds great too.
Last edited by Stef on Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Huge
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Post by Huge » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:15 am

Those tunes are a bit repetitive imo, there are other games with better melodies.

You should check out Scorcher on the Saturn however. It is also done by the same team (Scavenger, with music by Jesper Kyd), the music uses only the internal chip and no cd audio (minus for one tune that I never got to play anywhere). I don't think there is any other Saturn game to push the sound chip that far - Nights doesn't do shit compared to Scorcher.

The only real problem is that the volume is maxed and the sound is clipping a lot.

powerofrecall
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Post by powerofrecall » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:12 pm

Stef backs me up for the win! B&R has great music if you love industrial/ebm/crazy maxed out IDM stuff. Melodically it's not Kyd's best work but the texture of its sound is amazing, and the total use of FM has a place in my heart too.
Huge wrote:Those tunes are a bit repetitive imo, there are other games with better melodies.

You should check out Scorcher on the Saturn however. It is also done by the same team (Scavenger, with music by Jesper Kyd), the music uses only the internal chip and no cd audio (minus for one tune that I never got to play anywhere). I don't think there is any other Saturn game to push the sound chip that far - Nights doesn't do shit compared to Scorcher.

The only real problem is that the volume is maxed and the sound is clipping a lot.
Scorcher's sound is awesome, I didn't even realize it was tracked music until I went looking for audio on the CD. Makes me wonder why no one has tried to do like an XM player or something for the Saturn.

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Post by tomaitheous » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:50 pm

Huge wrote: You should check out Scorcher on the Saturn however.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W9x7Tmba1Y <- Oh my god... that sounds like ass.
Stef backs me up for the win!

T_T

You guys are nuts. B&R is one of the very-very-very few games that I have to turn the sound off to play. And believe, it's not the repetitive part so much (I've listened to 'Around the World' for 4 hours straight many times while coding). It's the style and more annoyingly the instruments... just makes my head hurt and stomach upset.

Guess I can't help it if you guys have poor taste in music (hehe) 8)

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Post by TmEE co.(TM) » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:23 pm

I like B&R and Red Zone music... the sound engine is really messing with the YM2612 in a wild manner.
Scorcher has music I do not like...
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Post by Shiru » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 pm

I like Jesper Kyd's SMD music. If someone don't likes certain music style, it's not reason to say that music in this style is bad. Especially if so many people say it's great music for the style.

Complaining 'it's too repetitive' about techno or trance music is just ridiculous. It's supposed to be repetitive. Could you complain 'classical music sucks, it has no drums'?

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