Please help decide on projection

Ask anything your want about Megadrive/Genesis programming.

Moderator: BigEvilCorporation

Post Reply
greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:28 am

Please help decide on projection
Attachments
proj_compare2.png
proj_compare2.png (9.1 KiB) Viewed 2597 times

djcouchycouch
Very interested
Posts: 683
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:44 am

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by djcouchycouch » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:42 am

what kind of game?

greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:05 am

RTS.

However would be nice to know any opinions (disregard the genre).

Flygon
Very interested
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by Flygon » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:37 am

For an RTS, the first would produce an easier-to-see playfield.

greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:26 am

True. It produces an easier-to-see playfield.
But my visual perception more likes the right projection. The left one looks like a bit weird to me.

Actually that's the problem to decide on:
left one: better playfield + worse appearance
vs.
right one: worse playfield + better appearance

The left one has two (less important) advantages:
- sprites move by (0,1) (1,1) (1,0) and it looks like smoothly (not (2,1) (2,0) as it would in the right one).
- sprites move in both direction with the same "visual" speed. in the right one vertical moves would be twice slower because of the constriction of the vertical axis.
But those two advantages are still too few to overcome the visual comfort of the right projection.

cero
Very interested
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:55 pm

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by cero » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:47 am

Do both and let the user choose :P

Stef
Very interested
Posts: 2976
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:46 pm
Location: France - Sevres
Contact:

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by Stef » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:50 am

In fact the left vision has many advantages and only one disadvantage (worse appearance).
You can consider left view as a "top" view mostly, so you just end with a simple 2D logic game (where X,Y can be see as X,Z but that doesn't make any difference). The right view on another hand is a 3D isometric view, and because of that the game logic is much more complex. You need to handle pseudo 3D orthogonal projection for positioning and also deal with object priorities (buildings can hide characters for instance) when you don't have to care about that with the left view. Just my 2 cents.

r57shell
Very interested
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by r57shell » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:12 pm

left one looks wierd because it's not Orthographic projection.
I have no idea how to make good Orthographic projection with camera set "more top" than right image. So, it's up to you.
Image

greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:56 pm

Yes I am aware the left is not an orthogonal projection. They call it "oblique" and "military" particularly.
The right is almost isometric.

Currently the most probable scheme is really "both" as cero "suggested".
Visual appearance of the right one and "physical" part of the left one.
It's surprising a bit but they look like quite well together.

For example StarCraft 1 uses such a scheme.

r57shell
Very interested
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by r57shell » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:05 pm

greatkreator wrote:For example StarCraft 1 uses such a scheme.
Really? Tell me how to enable other one? Starcraft I guess using same as everywhere starting from Rock 'n' Roll Racing: isometry (X-COM).
Image

greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:48 pm

StarCraft 1 uses isometric visualization and "plain" 2D physics.
For example if you command two the same units to go horizontally and vertically they will do that with the same speed.
If the physics would be really isometric vertical moves would be twice slower for example as in another less popular RTS "Cossacks".

Also it's easy to see that in the map editor: for example whole the visual map has shape of a square not a rectangle.

And in Rock'n'roll racing they use both isometric visualization and physics. You can see that horizontal moves twice faster than vertical.

r57shell
Very interested
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by r57shell » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:00 pm

greatkreator wrote:StarCraft 1 uses isometric visualization and "plain" 2D physics.
Ah, now I got it. Yeah, physics is 2D indeed.
(while trying to check starcraft, found this awesomeness https://www.twitch.tv/certicky )
Image

greatkreator
Very interested
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Ukraine

Re: Please help decide on projection

Post by greatkreator » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:24 pm

The most interesting that human perception almost doesn't notice that feature.
At least in the times when SC1 was very popular I personally had never noticed that.
I felt a bit that something was wrong and strange but that's was a very slight feeling.
The left fake-projection causes to me much more discomfort than the SC1 approach.

The problem is solved. Thanks a lot for the help!

Post Reply