Is there a SGDK suite? What would it look like?

SGDK only sub forum

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slobu
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Is there a SGDK suite? What would it look like?

Post by slobu » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:58 pm

I was thinking about how BasiEgaXorz users could transition to C. One thing that struck me was a lack of SGDK suite like BEX had. Am I just not looking hard enough? What would such a suite look like if it existed? How could such a beast be put together? My thoughts are:

All in one installer including pre-configured IDE, examples, libraries.
Any dependencies such as MAKE or MinGW Cygwin etc installed as well

Yes, yes I know - each C dev has his own preference for compilers and IDE and such. What I'd like to cobble together is something newbie friendly. Something accessible to someone coming from a higher level language background.

Making such an installer is within my capabilities but I have no idea on the rest. I was especially hoping those that already made the transition such as Oerg866 would chime in.

djcouchycouch
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Post by djcouchycouch » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:15 pm

the SGDK is self contained, has a decent library API and a few examples. It doesn't come with an IDE but has instructions on how to integrate it into a few.

Other than having it bundled with an IDE, what else would be required?

slobu
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Post by slobu » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:23 pm

djcouchycouch wrote:the SGDK is self contained, has a decent library API and a few examples. It doesn't come with an IDE but has instructions on how to integrate it into a few.

Other than having it bundled with an IDE, what else would be required?
The trouble I had with the Jaguar and NES C compilers was having to manually install and find MAKE for Windows (32 or 64 bit) and not setting the environment variables in Windows

i.e. PATH="C:\Program Files (x86)\cc65-snapshot\bin;C:\Program Files (x86)\cc65-snapshot\bin;C:\Program Files (x86)\GnuWin32\bin"

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Post by foobat » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:51 am

Windows is holding you back, man. You gotta leave it behind

slobu
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Post by slobu » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:56 pm

foobat wrote:Windows is holding you back, man. You gotta leave it behind
Your advice is a little terse on details. Could you kindly re-read the original post?

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:08 pm

slobu wrote:
foobat wrote:Windows is holding you back, man. You gotta leave it behind
Your advice is a little terse on details. Could you kindly re-read the original post?
What he means is, any linux distro will stand you better for developing for other platforms. The only thing Windows is good at developing for is Windows... using only Microsoft's developer software. Anything else will require jumping through hoops since MS doesn't want you developing for anything other than Windows... using their software.

I like Xubuntu - it's got all the good features of Ubuntu, but none of that nasty Gnome/KDE nonsense. XFCE is the Windowing Manager to use right now. There are many great distros to choose from - I suggest one weekend when you have some time, download a few Live CDs for different distros and try them on your system. Everyone has different tastes, so while I promote Xubuntu, you may go with Mint or Fedora or Arch or one of several dozen other distros.

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Post by foobat » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:36 pm

Setting up a development environment in Windows is like pulling teeth. Some IDEs might do it acceptably (Code::Blocks does a good enough job) but if you need to teach someone how to use a dev kit do you want them learning a new IDE at the same time?

It's easier to just stop thinking about the Windows users. Any competent Windows user will eventually migrate to another platform where the OS itself isn't fighting against you every step of the way while you try to set up a development environment.

On a Debian or Ubuntu system you can literally type "apt-get install build-essential" and you have a development environment ready to go on the spot in under 20 seconds

djcouchycouch
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Post by djcouchycouch » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Some points:

I am a Windows user. It's what I'm used to. It's what I'm comfortable with. So, hypothetically, removing Windows support in SGDK for me would be bad. Had the SGDK been only on Linux, I probably wouldn't have started on Goplanes.

Seriously removing Windows support requires a better reason than "it's a pain in the ass" or "linux is better".

Most of the good content creation tools are on Windows.

I'm already using two OSes (Windows and OSX) for development. I'd rather not have to work with a third. Oh sure, I could learn to use Linux more but I'd see it as another barrier for producing my work.

To promote the adoption of SGDK you want it to be supported on many platforms. Adding linux: good. Removing Windows: bad.

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:18 pm

djcouchycouch wrote:To promote the adoption of SGDK you want it to be supported on many platforms. Adding linux: good. Removing Windows: bad.
I do agree with that, but devs should still be encouraged to move to something better. Just because you CAN use Windows (with some effort) is no reason to stick with it.

As Windows changes, the issues just get worse, so I expect the encouragement to switch to become more frequent. :wink:

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Post by powerofrecall » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:22 am

Wow, I haven't posted here in a while.

While linux is better for dev and I in fact run one in a VM on a windows host, the whole point of putting out a suite with an integrated IDE would be for ease of use and some hand holding for people making the switch from BEX. This core audience of newbies (and people coming from other homebrew scenes where the barrier-of-entry might be lower) just wanting to have a peek at MD homebrew likely isn't going to be running linux--and if they are they can probably follow instructions well enough to build a toolchain. Linux support in the form of a script (download, unpack, compile) would be great but I personally stand behind the idea of a Windows installer at least on the level of say, the devkitpro windows installer. Just my two bits.

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Post by foobat » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:33 am

I didn't mean to derail the thread, I'm just bikeshedding. But I do think Windows is a dying platform and I wouldn't tie a tutorial tool to it. Your target audience is either already experimenting with Linux or will be soon. Having to deal with make for windows and environment variables and mingw is just a big waste of time for everybody involved when the alternative is... a makefile

just my two cents

powerofrecall
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Post by powerofrecall » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:26 am

I actually agree with you, except maybe the 'Windows is a dying platform' thing--that one depends purely on what you're looking at--which sort of calls into question the whole point of putting together a suite at all. :) For what it's worth, MSYS isn't that terrible to use but it is kind of another layer on top of something not meant to work the way you need.

edit: Someone putting together an easy Windows installer (msys, gcc toolchain, an editor) wouldn't harm anyone, but since I can't be bothered to do it myself that kind of proves your point...

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Post by Stef » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:42 am

Current SGDK include windows only binaries and just because I am one of those windows users... and i will probably continue to use it for sometime as i am used to this system. I admit that today Linux is a pretty good system and i can probably switch to it but windows is still the most used OS by far :
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

As you can see linux merely progress where OSX made some nice progress (boosted by the iPhone and iPad invulnerabilities i guess).

We already have a limited number of people interested in "retro" deving so we have to make it as easy it could be, i am almost certain than removing windows support would make 80% of new users to give up immediately. Also linux users are more used to compiler stuff and can figure alone how to set the GCC 68k compiler up for their system.

Since the beginning of SGDK the goal was to offer a "ready to use" tool to develop on the sega megadrive. Including the IDE, debugger as audio & image tools... I am far from that but still it make the life a bit easier for who try to develop on this system.

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Post by sega16 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:23 pm

What people seem to be forgetting is that you can keep windows and install linux I did not lose one file. I recently made the switch to linux and I can say that it is the superior operation system compared to windows. In a rare event I will need to run something that doesn't work under wine so I will just turn off my computer and run windows but for the most part I am now running linux. I think an interesting experiment would be to keep a similar log on the spritesmind forums to see if the linux percent is higher than wc3 schools as I think it is.
Last edited by sega16 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Another thing to remember is WINE runs quite a lot of Windows software, and if need be, you can run Windows in a VM - which is what I do for the ONE THING I use that won't run in WINE.

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