Pier solar in Regen

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sega16
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Postby sega16 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:15 am

oofwill wrote:If i'm your pet peve because i wrote this, it doesn't matter, i'm not offent ;)
No it has nothing to do with you I have always disliked it when people said downloading old games is illegal.

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oofwill
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Postby oofwill » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:03 am

I understand, There are certain sentences which ruffle up me to the hair also, sometimes ^^

Patrick
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Postby Patrick » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:04 pm

Well , well, well, how much hypocrisy we have here .

so you buy a cartridge and you console stop to work and you can't make a copy to play in PC? come on , give a break!

You realy think that a guy who keeps a console made in 1988 are interested in something that is not solid? the people from WM know that , and a copy from this game in web will not made any diference by the collectibles , the consumers in this case, people target for WM.

why the cartrige duplicate your price after a chinese dump? think about it.

Are you talk about ethic? what you have to say about Breath of fire 3 that was translated from chinese and changed the name for Beggar Price and selling without any quote for original?

When we spoke about a hardware without support in the last 10 years there is no thieves and heroes , any thing beyond this is hypocrisy

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Postby Oerg866 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:27 pm

You're fucking retarded, guys. And by that I mean those who advocate the piracy of Pier Solar.

Pier Solar is a NEW game made by Watermelon games.

Watermelon is a real company. The company specializes in making games in the Mega Drive.

The company must exist. To exist it must make profit. The profit of Pier Solar is funding the majority of Mega Drive game development.

That's why you guys are assholes and taking money away from companies that continue to support this console. If you Pirate this game, you kill the releases of new games! You make everyone else in this scene suffer for your cheapness.

It is no big deal where several millions are involved (Pirating modern PC GAMES is not a big deal), but with THIS SCENE you are backstabbing the creators of awesome material.

If you had a choice between buying a game and keeping the scene alive, or pirating the game to get it for free but risk killing the scene by the rom getting released. Which one would you choose?

PS: Emulators don't emulate Pier solar because the copy protection of Pier solar is very sophisticated. Let's just leave it at that.

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HardWareMan
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Postby HardWareMan » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:59 pm

Oerg866 wrote:You're fucking retarded, guys. And by that I mean those who advocate the piracy of Pier Solar.

Pier Solar is a NEW game made by Watermelon games.

Watermelon is a real company. The company specializes in making games in the Mega Drive.

The company must exist. To exist it must make profit. The profit of Pier Solar is funding the majority of Mega Drive game development.

That's why you guys are assholes and taking money away from companies that continue to support this console. If you Pirate this game, you kill the releases of new games! You make everyone else in this scene suffer for your cheapness.

Oh, where are you shown their license from Sega?
Oerg866 wrote:If you had a choice between buying a game and keeping the scene alive, or pirating the game to get it for free but risk killing the scene by the rom getting released. Which one would you choose?

I would choose to distribute the content as much as possible and preferably free. Popularity is support that scene afloat but not one company that needs a profit. Why members of this forum would not start to sell their demos and games? They also do not have a license from Sega, right? Would you bought Goplanes of the next branch?
Oerg866 wrote:PS: Emulators don't emulate Pier solar because the copy protection of Pier solar is very sophisticated. Let's just leave it at that.

Wrong.
ImageImage
With all due respect for to Sega (me and Russian-speaking community), most after watching the game on the emulator refused to buy this product. Personally, I honestly bought the cartridge.

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Postby Oerg866 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:35 pm

The ROM is NOT original. It has been modified to hell to get the game playable AT ALL. And the EMULATOR is modified aswell. With tons of workarounds for ONE GAME you MODIFY the original GOAL of an emulator. It's like N64 emulation! It sucks!

I know, from where I will not tell, the methods that are involved in dumping this game and making it work. You, apparently, do not.

And yes, I would buy goplanes too.

It's not about the profit of anyone per se.

The company SPECIALIZES in MD dev. The thing here is, they have teams dedicated to EVERYTHING. They have game development. they have quality control, an assembly line, marketing, distribution, ETC ETC with long testing processes and very carful management. You cannot compare this to "Taking money from someone". It's not about a license from sega. You trying to pinpoint immorality to that (SEGA does not CARE!) disgusts me.

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Postby HardWareMan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:50 am

You do not even have any idea about my level of knowledge of equipment including Sega. I'm not hard to make out this game to pieces and remove all the protections, I've done it for some games. But this game does not interest me. And yes, I took some indirect involvement in the analysis of the game at the request of some people.
The developer is detected. The concerned person is not objective. I'm not going to continue this holywar.

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Postby TmEE co.(TM) » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:13 am

HardWareMan is a super awesowe guy as far as HW and SW go, his name means a lot :P
I wish my Russian did not suck...

I'm not seeing a whole lot of point in pouring oil in the fire.

As far as license goes, Sega is not giving them not even if you pay lot of money. Their answer is "we do not care what you do, as long as you leave our trademarks and copyrights alone". This answer came from SOA and SOJ, SOE was enthusiastic but had no rights about the matter, SOA and SOJ are in charge.
Mida sa loed ? Nagunii aru ei saa ;)
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Files of all broken links and images of mine are found here : http://www.tmeeco.eu/FileDen

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Postby Oerg866 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:37 am

HardWareMan: I don't say anything against you, as I've seen you do awesome stuff before and I really enjoy it all, BUT, I don't think you unerstood what I said. You're trying to make me discuss a topic that this is not about, and the point I'm trying to make is a direct response to how many people think in this thread.

I'm against the people that openly admit to pirating this game, because just because they don't really have a LICENSE doesn't mean people didn't spend 4 YEARS of time on this game.

And about the oil in the fire thing, I think without discussing it people will think it's OK to just pirate these games, because all those ignorant kiddies on the internet will think it's uber awesome to play those games in an emulator when this isn't even what they were intended for.

My fundamental beliefs are attacked by the fact that these ignorant people and their ignorance are spreading on to Sprites Mind.

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HardWareMan
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Postby HardWareMan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:31 pm

Your position is very clear: people want to be rewarded for their work. Quite rightfully that make it mandatory, forcing buy cartridge. But this is only true for a game and the company which made it. Also, you say "a company that supports the scene." Why only companies that need profits in the first place to its existence (a reference to your first post)? Is it impossible to maintain this scenes by donations? A lot of people come here and do real good things without any companies. That's who should be supported, not some company that released a game.

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Postby djcouchycouch » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:43 pm

If anybody wants to give me money to sustain my rich, lavish lifestyle, I'm all for it.

Oh, and maybe I'd finish Goplanes.

notaz
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Postby notaz » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:56 pm

Oerg866 wrote:The ROM is NOT original. It has been modified to hell to get the game playable AT ALL. And the EMULATOR is modified aswell. With tons of workarounds for ONE GAME you MODIFY the original GOAL of an emulator. It's like N64 emulation! It sucks!

That ROM is a proper dump, I've compared it to my own dump from my own cart. Of course the emulator had to be modified to support the mapper. And those "tons of workarounds" is a proper single patch that has been accepted to MAME/MESS mainline.
Let's just look at the diffstat:
2 files changed, 258 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
which consists of (counts include diff context):
- 11 lines to hook the game into MESS database
- 15 lines to emulate the ROM mapper
- 198 lines to emulate EEPROM for saves
- 34 lines of a hack for game to pass dump-protection self-check

So the only thing that slightly conflicts with MESS philosophy is dump-protection hack, but they have plenty of those things in emulator already. In either case that hack has no effect on gameplay or accuracy whatsoever, your N64 comparison is just ridiculous.

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Postby djcouchycouch » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:23 pm

But seriously.

I really don't want to be part of this internet drama, but I had some thoughts.

WARNING: I really don't know what I'm going to do with Goplanes.

If Goplanes gets released independently by me or through a company and it gets pirated then I would be sad. But it happens. I hope the game will be interesting enough for people to buy. It would validate a big part of the amount of effort I put into it.

Also, if it does get released in cart form and sold for a price, I seriously don't expect to retire. I'd expect at least to recoup costs. Releasing games for obsolete platforms is not a million dollar business. I'd still have to sustain my mansion, my driver, my mistress and three luxury cars through my day job of selling Fabergé eggs on the black market.

But seriously.

A company has access to resources, people and contacts that I as an individual do not. Let's be realistic: I can't quit my job to work on Goplanes full time. There's not enough interest out there to fund me for a year or more. I have a family and can't live on noodles alone. If I use the help of a company then it's because I felt that it was more beneficial to the project to get it out sooner and/or better.

Companies have to make money to sustain their operations. It is their interest to make profits so that they can continue.

I don't see much of a difference between an independent developer and a company. Weren't the Pier Solar guys just a bunch of people from Eidolon's Inn forum? Aren't they the kind of people we want to emulate? They managed to get together from different places in the world, formed a group and successfully released a product. I totally respect that.

That's it.

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KanedaFr
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Postby KanedaFr » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:50 pm

whatever you do, games will be dumped. Point.

People who want to buy the original cart and case will buy it
People who want to collect every genny game made will buy it
People who want to invest will buy it (and sell it 3 times the price they paid for)
People who want to support homebrews will buy it

People who wants to test it will download it (and a few percent will buy it)
People who wants every genny roms will download it (and a few percent of people tired or unable to patch the emulator to play it will buy it)

I don't see here anything about respect or un respect of WaterMelon
It's just the way it is and no-one could fight with this.
and certainly not here (I don't want another great member to disappear!)

The only thing that I see a non respect is how some people burn homebrew games on repro cart and sell it an awful price. I could accept it for some bucks but not 50, 60 or 70$ !


last point (because I can't let this as is) :

Are you talk about ethic? what you have to say about Breath of fire 3 that was translated from chinese and changed the name for Beggar Price and selling without any quote for original?


Do you REALLY know what you're talking about ?
Read the first page of the web site (http://www.beggarprince.com/), you'll notice the original credit, the permession they got to make it and the works done (and not simply a translation)
and it's not BoF3

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HardWareMan
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Postby HardWareMan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:12 pm

TmEE co.(TM) wrote:I wish my Russian did not suck...

PS: So what's problem? Let's do it quick! (c) :3


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