Sega Megadrive Portable

For hardware talk only (please avoid ROM dumper stuff)
Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:32 pm

Shiru wrote: I don't say that you point is wrong, I just explain my point. If we have slow memory, to make code faster, we generally must minimize access to memory. Storage of most usable variables in registers is just an particular case of that. But we can't fit all needed variables in registers anyway, and there is other methods exists. We have cache, we can temporarily move global variables to register variables, until loop execution, etc. And when we minimize memory access in C code, we get same bottleneck as in equal assembly code - for loops it's usually reading of input data stream from slow memory.
Yes, I wonder if properly placed prefetch instructions with properly designed data structures would increase the speed of C code close to assembly by making use of the fact that cached data is ALMOST as fast as registers.

Anywho, half the issue with figuring out what to keep in registers in assembly is also figuring out how to juggle that data around when you need the registers for something else. That's where the ART part of the Art of Assembly comes in play. 8)

Assembly code won't magically make something ten times as fast - you have to be good at writing assembly as well. I rewrote PCx three times from scratch with three completely different CPU emulation methods before it was acceptable.

elan
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Post by elan » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:58 am

Hey I want talk about Portable Sega Megadrive or Sega Nomad.
Or some clones but with ym2612 inside...

Where can I buy Sega Nomad (but not for 299EURO... :( ) in Europe???

PS: But I know emulation is good way too...

Stef
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Post by Stef » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:54 pm

Shiru wrote:I tried it today, and that works surprisingly well. Not ideal, of course (as I understand, author did not optimize code for PPC) - with noticeable but acceptable frameskip, and with good sound, at least. Unfortunately, this emulator not shows FPS, and I was not able to edit config file at device while test, so I can't do some benchmarks. I only can say that v1.3 allow to choose between different Z80 and M68K cores, and MAME M68K core is much slower (games becomes unplayable), and change of Z80 core does not make noticeable difference.
Just curious, what was the other choice for the 68K core ? asm one O_o ?
I believe that, but I must notice that lookup tables can slowdown code, which works very fast on x86 PC's, on systems like PocketPC - these tables just does not fit in smaller cache (sometimes real computations works faster than precalculated tables on systems with slow memory).
Totally agreed : my YM2612 is a good example : it intensively uses lookup table and memory access at generation time. It's faster on x86 cpu than MAME core but it's as fast if not slower when you use it on Dreamcast. Dreamcast hasn't slow memory but the SH-4 CPU has a small and poor logic cache...
Eke wrote:As I said in this post, they very slowdown emulation. And I can say, sometimes these cores not 'not really optimized', but 'really not optimized'. That not bad, of course, because these cores designed not to work fast, but to work very precisely.
Musashi 68k core (the one from MAME) isn't bad and in fact it's not easy to do a faster interpreter core in pure C, the code is quite efficient but almost speed is killed in these millions "function call" for opcode execution.
C68K is faster but it uses the "computed label" features which helps a lot and which isn't available on all C compiler.
Chilly Willy wrote:...When you choose what to keep in registers correctly, even poor assembly is VASTLY superior to the best C code for emulations.
Hmm... i don't agree with that. I'm almost sure i can do at least half of the speed of the best assembly code with pure C code with a good compiler. Of course, i speak about C code optimised for the desired architecture ;)

There is written triangultic rectangular, not just triangle. This can mean something like you draw - rectangular wave smoothed with output filter.
oh well, i read too quicly :p

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:29 pm

Stef wrote:Just curious, what was the other choice for the 68K core ? asm one O_o ?
Genesis Plus v1.03 had choice between Musashi and Cyclone cores, current version has Cyclone core only.

Stef
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Post by Stef » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Shiru wrote:
Stef wrote:Just curious, what was the other choice for the 68K core ? asm one O_o ?
Genesis Plus v1.03 had choice between Musashi and Cyclone cores, current version has Cyclone core only.
Ok, that explains... Cyclone is a ARM assembly optimised 68k core.
I guess your PDA uses ARM cpu.

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:31 pm

Stef wrote:I guess your PDA uses ARM cpu.
Of course. All today's PocketPC devices uses ARM processors.

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Post by Stef » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:01 pm

Shiru wrote:
Stef wrote:I guess your PDA uses ARM cpu.
Of course. All today's PocketPC devices uses ARM processors.
ohh what a pity ! no more SuperH, dragonball or custom TI chip PDA...

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:16 pm

Stef wrote:ohh what a pity ! no more SuperH, dragonball or custom TI chip PDA...
I have no regrets about it, because ARM's is quite good CPU's (my favorite), they uses anywhere today - PDA's (both PPC and Palm), mobile phones and smartphones, handheld game consoles...

However, I never had experience with SuperH, maybe it was cool too, I don't know.

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:36 pm

Shiru wrote:
Stef wrote:ohh what a pity ! no more SuperH, dragonball or custom TI chip PDA...
I have no regrets about it, because ARM's is quite good CPU's (my favorite), they uses anywhere today - PDA's (both PPC and Palm), mobile phones and smartphones, handheld game consoles...

However, I never had experience with SuperH, maybe it was cool too, I don't know.
The SuperH was in all SEGA's newer consoles. The 32X and Saturn used two SH2s, and the Dreamcast used an SH4.

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Post by Shiru » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:38 pm

Chilly Willy, I know that, of course. But I never coded anything for these systems.

Chilly Willy
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Post by Chilly Willy » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:27 am

Shiru wrote:Chilly Willy, I know that, of course. But I never coded anything for these systems.
It sounded from your first post like you didn't know ANYTHING about them. Sorry. :D

Even if you hadn't programmed them, the mere fact that SEGA used them makes them cool. :wink: :lol:

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:44 am

Chilly Willy wrote:Even if you hadn't programmed them, the mere fact that SEGA used them makes them cool. :wink: :lol:
For me, Kaneko Super Nova, Psykio SH2 and Cave 3rd arcade hardware makes them cool.

Shiru
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Post by Shiru » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:31 am

Rumata, one of russian console hardware gurus, posted some info about MDP cartridges on one russian forum.

I translate this info here:


All single-game cartridges divided by categories, depending from game size.

MDP-1 - 512KB
MDP-2 - 1MB
MDP-3 - 2MB
MDP-4 - 3MB
MDP-5 - 4MB

Category specified on back side of cartridge case. MDP-3 carts uses 2MB flash chip, MDP-4 and MDP-5 uses 4MB.

MDP cartridge slot pinout:

Code: Select all

A1 - NC     B1 - (A21)
A2 - A11    B2 - A20
A3 - A19    B3 - A16
A4 - A12    B4 - /OE
A5 - A17    B5 - D4 
A6 - A7     B6 - Ucc
A7 - A8     B7 - A10
A8 - A9     B8 - D7
A9 - A18    B9 - D0
A10 - A4    B10 - /CE
A11 - /WE   B11 - D5
A12 – NC    B12 - A13
A13 - A15   B13 - A6
A14 – NC    B14 - D15
A15 - A3    B15 - A2
A16 - A14   B16 - D8
A17 - A0    B17 - A1
A18 - D6    B18 - NC
A19 – NC    B19 - NC
A20 - D1    B20 - D13
A21 – NC    B21 - D12
A22 - D10   B22 - D14
A23 – GND   B23 - D9
A24 - D3    B24 - D11
A25 - D2    B25 - A5
Pins order is left-to-right, if you hold cartridge with sticker on front side. A is top side, B is bottom side. Slot contains all signals which needed to flash reprogramming (programmer device must work in word mode).

elan
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Post by elan » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:36 am

MDP-3 carts uses 2MB flash chip...
When there is flash eepromchip so it is possible to upload there new homebrew game or demo.
But probably there is no linker yet.
Anyway this is very interesting information.

PS->I found this color variations.

Image
Image

TmEE co.(TM)
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Post by TmEE co.(TM) » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:54 am

Fonz thought that these Flashes on the carts are burned with 22Volts thus making them most likely unflashable... my MPCP could be used to re-flash them, but there is a need for 5V to 3.3V converters (or power the MPCP with 3.3V, but then the PC LPT port would kill it maybe).

This doesn't quite fit the topic aswell as it should, but I bought a Sega(yeah right) Magistr Drive II made by Russian company NewGame (www.newgame.ru)... it is small, and you can call it portable, but it is FAR from real thing, very poor sound (YM2612 accuracy is OK, but PCM sucks), and many games including Sonic3 wont work !!! I guess the MDP comes from the same company... cheap low quality stuff... but that poor beast goes to my friend Epicenter who really wants to get his hands on a MD clone...
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