Future of SpritesMind

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KanedaFr
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Future of SpritesMind

Post by KanedaFr » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:39 pm

Hi all,

Some recents events (life and cat fighting) made me think about SpritesMind, and I should make it clear for you.

I said a few times these last years i didn't know if I won't close SpritesMind.
Last month, I closed it ... 1 week.
While it was a 'nervous' reaction, and so a bad thing to do, I had to ask me the question in reverse : should I reopened it ?
And my immediate answer was "yes! of course!...when the cat case will be close"

If I can't live with it closed, why did I ask me if I should close it ? :shock:
Thinking about it for about a week (yes, THIS week), it seems it's because SM didn't reach the goals I was hoping for:
I opened SM years ago when we lost the only group talking about Genny dev.
It was awesome : as a newbie, I was able to talk with Charles, Steve Snake and so many others great "names" of the Genesis emu/dev scene at that moment.
I couldn't believe it came to an end, that future newbies, like I was, won't find a place where they could ask whatever they want...and in return, will pass this knowledge to some others rookies.
And without this, no way to see new releases on my favorite system, like we started to see on GB and NES (my hateful system).

Yes, SM is a place where we could find and share info on the Genny and where new projects should start and finish as a physical release.
But I made some errors.

Err 1: human is human
I was stupid to think people will start to talk with each other, to create some big "scene".
Oh, of course, anyone could talk, share anything new but beware if you're not on the same line !
I opened a room, let everyone come in and started to read my book while they talk...without listening
I didn't see usual personal human problem coming.
I was a moderator but I think my duty was to kick spammers not to warn member getting to far, becoming some asshole :
I saw "premium" members fight together.
I saw members laugh at newb.
And i didn't "moderate" (apart with one member, who only knows what respect is when he talks about himself)
it was a big mistake and it's all my fault. My defense ? to define who should stay and who should be banned is against the reason I opened SM.
So yes, I perhaps shouldn't be a moderator....or it seems i can't be the only one.


Err 2: expecting something
Who I am to expect members to work together ? to make them release a game ?
I can't ask this, even more if all I do is "expecting".
I didn't think I had to "animate" SM, I though ideas will popup themselves, members will group together around same project.
I made it easy to create (private) subforum for any group asking for....but noone asked.
It seems I failed here also.
Of course, some projects were released (hi Spain!) but...for a large part of them, they were announced on others boards, not on SM.
I'm not saying every project should get a SM logo, surely not !
I'm saying some members released a game, and didn't give an useful feedback on SM : how they manage to release it ? what bugs they fight with ? what part of the code could be of some interest to other members ?
Don't see this like an attack. it's me and only me.
I had to bare with the fact that some people share and some others...well...use this knowledge to what it was made for.
I should be happy...but I was really hoping for a "we're all friends" mood, stupid me....
I had to stop dreaming.
SM is full of useful informations, mission completed !
Like I accepted people didn't use my tools (and reinvent the wheel every time), I had to accept informations is used, not shared.
Lesson learnt.



Err 3: informations...everywhere
Yes, thanks to you, SM is full of awesome informations about the Genny.
But..how do you find the one you need ?
the YM2612 thread is a best example :
I think noone will deny it is THE best, if not the only one, valuable source on the net about the YM2612.
Sooooo many lost in Sega/Yamaha details discovered and explained in details by some awesome members.
but you had to read +50 pages (and still couting) to get them all......
I already splitted SM in sub forums some years ago to fix it....but it was not enough.
A lot of you asked for a wiki.
And yes, I do understand the needs when I browsed nesdev wiki, or when I was looking for details on some others no-sega systems (**cough**SNK***cough***).
And yes, I tried to create one but you have to understand :
- 2 others wiki already exists and noone contribute(d) to them
- wiki are unsecure, and to see hackers broke SM Wiki, with loss of data, is great possibility
- when I tried to (re)launch it, debate was about "welll...is it really needed?" and "ohh...sorry I won't be able to contribute"
So...WHAT ?
Is it my duty to contribute to the wiki ? to get informations all over SM and store them somewhere, easy to find ?
It seems you ask for it...


Err 4: Forum only
SpritesMind is ALSO a website, not only a forum.
more than half of you didn't even browse the static part of SM.
And I know why : SM website seems to be my own / personal website.
SM is no longer....well...has never be my own.
It's devoted to every human willing to dev or hack the Genny.
Since it's not obvious, I'll propably revamp SM to be Genny related, not KanedaFr related ;)
...with personal sub pages for anyone asking for it (me first!)



Err 4: Real life is here
There was a time when I slept 3 or 4 hours a day, developing tool noone use (shhit...I tried to stop about this...but it really hurt me), answering to new members (even on question like "what is a command line?") and killing spammers.
I slowed down when my family started to complain and when it had impact on my job quality.
I'm now a father, with children i support, play with and love.
Bye bye the 3 or 4 hours a day....I'm more near the 3 or 4 hours a week!
And I stopped writing tools, I'm doing what I was expecting from others : games !
So yes, the time I allow to SM itself is almost ...nothing.
Could I give more ? I think you understand I can't....I'd like but it's not possible without important loss on my life, which I do not want.
I'm NOT the king of SM, I host it but YOU make it alive.
You need my help to create something, to launch an idea or to animate ? PM me.


SO ?
I had to define what I exactly could do for SM, for you.
Answer to members ? anyone else could do it
Moderate ? I'm not the only one able to do it, just need to delegate to respectful members
Wiki ? I could give the impulse, but if you (yes, you) don't follow, it would be a loss of time
More tools ? forget it
Tutorials ? yes, but when we could base them on the wiki
Animate ? it seems I had to, need to read "animate a communaty for dummies" first. Any idea ? (and no, a SpriteMind game isn't a good idea!)
Leave ? sorry, PsychoCat...no way! well...unless members ask for it of course
Publish ? errr...no, sorry, I have no knowledge about marketing and I'll keep my money for food.
...(more to come ?)

If you ever want to reply to this post, please, reply with an idea, a dream, a vision of SM you have....
I'll dig on it to define, with your help, what SM will be in 2018.

Thanks for reading...and sorry if you think it's nonsense

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HardWareMan
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by HardWareMan » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:48 am

Although I don't know the whole inside SM but I totally agree with you. Same thing happens with me but without having my own forum - I realized long time ago that I can't handle it because sufficient of time.

I'm will not make any game or tool because I'm hardware guy. I'm ready to share what I know and I able to spend some time with research. Not so much time, but with some powerful HW tools that can help make it in time. Of course I'm talking about only MD itself and two addons CD/32x. I'm not reached my goal that I chase more than 8 last years. I'm talking about chipset decapping and restore the original schematic. This info really can make MD immortal, since you can replace any part of fried up chipset with totally correct one copy. I already done that with Dendy (russian clone of FC, sorry Kaneda) and I must do it with MD. That my major goal.

Forum as data storage. I already used it as information source. I really appreciate that you separated HW section. But yes, for now it is like a raw dump. Gold pieces of YM2612 info is smeared on more that 50 pages of topic... It is hard to find. But why it still usefull? Because of a man memory. I dont remember what I'm search for (heh, that's why I do it, right?) but I remember some notes or comment about it. So, search still resultative, if you really read or (this is even better) participated in the discussion. Right?

Anyway, I know that some forum ordering is required. I think we really don't require wiki. Because there no man resources for it maintain. But we able to create separate part of forum, let say "library" with parts for all kind of types info. It must be read only for all members, except some designated responsible users (the best is for moderaters only). The idea is keep there only approved info about respective topic and any of user can link it within forum without fear of lost it. We still will have user comments in search with link to info itself. But users can read only usefull info if they desire it. I think I can help with it respective to HW part.

Real life and time. Sure all of you who made your own family has insufficient of time. So I am. But I will try to give some time for it. Anyway we come and read so why we can't spend 5 minutes more to move out next bit of info to the right place, right? I'm in.

That's all for now. Hope I'm was clear enough.

cero
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by cero » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:09 am

The "expecting something" part is also visible in other older dev communities: NES, GBA... People age, and for current youths these consoles weren't a part of their childhood, they may never have touched one. Why would they start to develop for one? And so the userbases dwindle.

Then there's the rise of the commercial folks (like me), who develop as a job rather than for their own interest. We can't share the amount of details a personal project can. Of course I report any bugs to Stef, often with patches, but I rarely hit problems I can't solve by reading the official docs. So I don't ask that often. It does result in more progress, as in released games, but much less forum activity.

I don't think you need to do anything beyond keeping the place running, and what you want to do. Focus on your family, on your personal projects.

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by r57shell » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:45 pm

In short: noone owe you anything. Nail it!

Hold breathe, read it whole.
KanedaFr wrote:Some recents events (life and cat fighting) made me think about SpritesMind, and I should make it clear for you.
It's very good, that you're reviewing your world view.
KanedaFr wrote:Last month, I closed it ... 1 week.
And you were "redicilously cunt" at that moment:
Image
I'll quote myself:
[25.03.2017 16:37:59] r57 shell: look pinned twit https://twitter.com/SpritesMind
[25.03.2017 16:38:11] r57 shell: and replies
[25.03.2017 16:38:41] r57 shell: so this dick just put it down without any reasoning
You know why?
Because it was robbery.
You just stole effort that is not yours.
Stole information that has been posted voluntarily to share info/thoughts.
Info, that's not yours, effort to type it in post - not yours.
Vast amount of info, discussions, and unique details that was made by community.
You just deny access to it, like if it was yours.

Then you restore it back, and appology like nothing crucial happened.
But what is very sad that all knowledge of many ppl in hands of some dickhead.
KanedaFr wrote:I had to stop dreaming.
You still dreaming.
You saying that noone required to have SM logo in game: but real intention to write this: add logo!
You saying that noone required to share how they develop: but real intention to write this: share how you did it! What bugs was?

You still wanna ppl to do what you want, but they not.
This makes you upset.
Stop dreaming. You had to stop dreaming, but you didn't.
It's yor fault.

People do, what they likes to do.
KanedaFr wrote:SM is full of useful informations, mission completed !
As far as this info is accessible.
KanedaFr wrote:Lesson learnt.
Prove it then: stop deleting what ppl post just because you don't like it.
KanedaFr wrote:- 2 others wiki already exists and noone contribute(d) to them
But at least they exist. Even if you want to contribute, you can't contribute into wiki that doesn't exist.
I had period when I wanted to contribute into md.squee.co wiki, but it was disabled for editing for months.
When editing was reopened - interest was gone.
KanedaFr wrote:- wiki are unsecure, and to see hackers broke SM Wiki, with loss of data, is great possibility
Good wiki has history of editions. But database can be nuked: it's duty of admin to make backups.
KanedaFr wrote:- when I tried to (re)launch it, debate was about "welll...is it really needed?" and "ohh...sorry I won't be able to contribute"
So...WHAT ?
Is it my duty to contribute to the wiki ?
No, just let it be as it is being.
KanedaFr wrote:SpritesMind is ALSO a website, not only a forum.
Me personally don't give a shit about static part.
If I would like to make personal page, there's a lot of better choices.
I bet noone ever thought that you want to host there something that's not yours.
KanedaFr wrote:...with personal sub pages for anyone asking for it (me first!)
That means perhaps noone need it, same as private forums.
KanedaFr wrote:There was a time when I slept 3 or 4 hours a day, developing tool noone use (shhit...I tried to stop about this...but it really hurt me), answering to new members (even on question like "what is a command line?") and killing spammers.
It was again your fault.
Beliving that someone will use it, without being sure. I bet they didn't even ask for it.
After spending so much effort, you've stuck in situation where you feel like someone owe to you using you tools.
KanedaFr wrote:And I stopped writing tools, I'm doing what I was expecting from others : games !
Oh did you?
Make me know when they released. (or if already released)
KanedaFr wrote:So yes, the time I allow to SM itself is almost ...nothing.
It's completely fine.
Let it live its own life.

Regarding to kids, you know?
Don't control or restrict their life. Just guide them.
KanedaFr wrote:Could I give more ? I think you understand I can't....I'd like but it's not possible without important loss on my life, which I do not want.
You can.
Do not come across.
Don't shut mouths.
Let people talk, share.
Let ppl unite around projects. WTF with UMDK?

You've said goal of SM share info, make projects.
But you are the one of who prevent people to do this.
UMDK has to talk via email & google groups.

You've made "event" - accident.
Now many people unsure what will be with info that they post.
Is there any confidence that info will be kept, and not nuked with whole SM eventually during cramps.
KanedaFr wrote:I'm NOT the king of SM, I host it but YOU make it alive.
But you acting like you are.
Letting down SM due to personal insults.
Even if they touch you only in your imagination.
KanedaFr wrote:I had to define what I exactly could do for SM, for you.
I did already discribe you.
Time has come to change.
Reputation is damaged.
Restore will take a long.

Admin should assist recource to keep it up, and set moderators.
It doesn't mean that he should choose them.
KanedaFr wrote:If you ever want to reply to this post, please, reply with an idea, a dream, a vision of SM you have....
As always: SM for me is place where you can share info, thoughts, contact people. But does not should.
Image

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by KanedaFr » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:47 pm

There is a lot of truth in your words r57shell.

I don't think i'm a dickhead but yes, my unforgivable act last month is against me.

About my dreams, my hopes, yes i had NO RIGHT to get them.
I though my post was clear enough about it.
Where did i fail again so you still think everyone owe me something ?

About UMDK, i really don't understand where this false feeling i'm against this project.

About 'mouth', as i said, i'm against closing mouth like you ask for.
The only mouth i had to close, and it took me 3 years , is the one if this fuxking cat !!

djcouchycouch
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by djcouchycouch » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:52 pm

I think it's clear that people are concerned about the stability of the forum. It's a fantastic resource that nobody wants gone. It's where I learned to do Genny dev. But if it goes down because of heightened emotions between users then it significantly erodes the other members' trust.

You need moderators. At least two who've contributed or been here the longest. Positive members with good judgement. People you can talk to about any problems regarding the site. Bounce ideas off of. People to work directly in the forums interacting with members, enforcing the rules and getting the flack.

You need clear forum rules regarding behavior, including a section about abuse. Identify abusive members sooner and have a policy about punishment. And most importantly, you need to enforce it.


It's your site, you can do what you want. The suggestions above means having to let go and share. But we want to see Sprites Mind survive and keep going.

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TmEE co.(TM)
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by TmEE co.(TM) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:37 pm

I certainly don't want this place to disappear, all the information here will be lost then, and it is good info that you cannot find elsewhere. Information is why I keep visiting this place, and as far as information goes, I'll be sure to add more when I am done with gathering and formulating. Like you and many others, time is scarce. When I first joined this place I wasn't even 18 yet, I had all the time in the world and I could put full effort into everything and it was really awesome to see the great names and talk to them !

I don't think a wiki is a good idea (and there already are some), but I like what HWM said about special subforum. Everything is in same place and conveniently available.

Forum database should be backed up though, this info shouldn't ever get lost...
Mida sa loed ? Nagunii aru ei saa ;)
http://www.tmeeco.eu
Files of all broken links and images of mine are found here : http://www.tmeeco.eu/FileDen

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by themrcul » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:29 am

I am at least glad this place is still here, and I want to thank all who have made it happen.
Without it, I wouldn't have began my journey to make Mega Drive games.

While I am newish to the scene and the forum, I sincerely hope nothing happens to close it, and was shocked when the forum disappeared for a week. It made me hesitate to continue the projects I am working on, as getting help when something doesn't work would become so much more difficult.

Like Cero has said, just the minimum to keep the place going, with a focus on what you need to do in your life. Having 1-2 mods who are longtime members with good judgement is also a great idea.

Thanks all.

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by db-electronics » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:02 pm

djcouchycouch wrote:You need moderators. At least two who've contributed or been here the longest. Positive members with good judgement. People you can talk to about any problems regarding the site. Bounce ideas off of. People to work directly in the forums interacting with members, enforcing the rules and getting the flack.
YES!
djcouchycouch wrote:You need clear forum rules regarding behavior, including a section about abuse. Identify abusive members sooner and have a policy about punishment. And most importantly, you need to enforce it.
MORE YES!

My main reservations about posting information here has always been the general lack of respect displayed by several members. Most of what I have produced is actually open-source and available on Github - I would love to talk about here but several times I've thoroughly insulted by the behaviour here. So yeah, I think proper moderation plus clear cut and enforced rules are necessary for every forum.
What does db stand for? Well that's an excellent question...
http://www.db-electronics.ca

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Sik
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by Sik » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:12 am

HardWareMan wrote:I'm talking about chipset decapping and restore the original schematic.
VDP. Now =P

I actually have some Mega Drive hardware business to talk with you but SpritesMind doesn't let me touch PMs at all =/ (neither read nor write) so huh is there some other way to contact you?
Sik is pronounced as "seek", not as "sick".

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by HardWareMan » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:24 am

Sik wrote:I actually have some Mega Drive hardware business to talk with you but SpritesMind doesn't let me touch PMs at all =/ (neither read nor write) so huh is there some other way to contact you?
Why so? I was able to use PMs right after register. Did you try to set it here?
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by Sik » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:12 pm

Yeah, I'm still explicitly locked out of them (・ω・`)
Sik is pronounced as "seek", not as "sick".

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Stef
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by Stef » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:37 pm

Speaking about SpritesMind, for me it's without any doubts the best place for all people interesting in Sega 16 bit systems development. There is no comparable place for that, it's a incredible and very valuable source of information that you cannot find elsewhere.
Also it's kind of the official place for getting support with SGDK, losing that would also be a big lost for SGDK resource :-/ I would probably have to open my own forum but it makes much more sense to have it here in SpritesMind.

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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by Hik » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:18 pm

I honestly thought the forum had been hacked since the main site was still accessible
and Firefox gives me a prompt that the login is insecure. That Firefox prompt is also
the reason I don't log in as much anymore.

1; I've had that sort of an idea too, to make a community around something, but the reality
sometimes was that others either weren't interested or had a different idea.

2; Its important to start some activity and participate and also to do a bit of moderation.
I think you did good from what I read, you posted in the forum (I know some sites where the site owner
never posted in the site's forum) I think the members here have been pretty friendly for the most part
I haven't had any much issues with them except them doing a bit of arguing over coding practices.

3; Its a lot of work to maintain a site and a forum and a wiki, the wiki formatting sometimes was a bit
much to get into while working with other things like code and stuff. I contributed to one, but wasn't
expecting anyone else to contribute to them since people are often busy with other things.

4; I've used the main site to look up stuff and also to point others to useful links, does it have a
visitor counter? If it does, the visitor counter isn't visible to regular users.

5; My friend told me about being short on wood to burn when I asked about a progress on the fan game
I was involved with working on, which meant after a busy day of work there was little energy left to
put in any work on the game, which is understandable. It was more of a side project and while it was fun
working on it, there are sometimes other things which take priority.

What you could do to improve the forum would be to make the connection more secure with SSL
(like firefox and other browsers are suggesting now) ,use salted encryption on the passwords
and make some of the more active and responsible members into mods.

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KanedaFr
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Re: Future of SpritesMind

Post by KanedaFr » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:50 pm

1st
the rules are here for several years, 1 post up this one (!) : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5

2nd
I never hide my "view" (to avoid use "dream") of SpritesMind, see 2 post up this one (and rules) : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1936

3rd
UMDK is the great project but not for everybody (price, debug, ...)
My only pb was with a member, not with the project itself
Think what you want or what somebody else told you, you're free

4th
want to be a modo ? PM me (and tell me which forum)

5th
tell me what you want for ym2612 : subforum ?
if yes, give me a modo name

6th
I do understand SM moved from a community to a forum
Thanks to help me make it clear, it's never too late
I'll use the "Collaboration" sub forum from now, as any member could use and since it was the reason I opened it, by request

7th
SM no longer trustable because it was closed 1 week in +10years
?! :cry: !?
(sorry, I had to say it...)

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